[This one takes awhile to come back because it's something he's been grappling with. He trusts Harry and Hermione on a very deep level, but... well, nothing Snape has said or done here has in any way helped his case, and Neville is very, very not ready to believe that everything he and the other students went through was all to maintain some stupid cover.]
I think the things he did were unforgivable and it doesn't really matter what side he was on in the end and I think nobody who actually cared about anybody but himself could have done what he did no matter what justification he's using
did they even bother to tell you what it was like, what he turned Hogwarts into?
[No one is ever going to get Sirius to like Snape, or even care about Snape. They might be able to work on the same project, as long as they're kept far, far away from one another, but Sirius will always hate Snape. So if there's anyone that would agree readily to Snape being a selfish bastard who only cares about himself, it's Sirius Black. He doesn't actually know all of the things that Snape has done--he has an idea of a few of them, but only things that are more or less contemporary to his time.
Hogwarts has a battle. That's always been a little inconceivable to him, but with Dumbledore, why not? And with Snape as the bloody headmaster...]
[ and there it is, that sinking, cold feeling she always gets when the future is being held up in front of her like some kind of threat. not that it is, technically, but the way her chest twists makes her feel threatened, and it's probably written all over her face. it's humiliating, feeling so afraid of something that ultimately can't touch her here, but she is. she shakes her head, just this little tiny movement, looking just as embarrassed as she is afraid ]
I can't know. Not yet. [ she's looking somewhere past him for a second, shaking her head again before her eyes find his again, brow furrowed ] I know it makes me weak, like I'm trying to bury my head in the sand, but I can't- know those things. Not when I know I wasn't there to help, or fix things, or stop them. [ it's all guilt and responsibility and- yeah. but. ] I'm sorry.
I've been trying very hard to focus on what we all have here, you know? Because it's technically all I really do have. James and me. [ and she pauses there, hoping he sees that that's really what scares her. not the actual information, but the fact that she won't be there for any of it, she's still dealing with that. ] Not to say I'll just excuse what people did at home, who they are or what they've done, but I'm not- ready yet. To know.
[Of course, is what he thinks, rather vindictively. Because once you consider the things Snape actually did, it becomes so much more difficult to rally behind the justification he was doing it for our benefit.]
Did you know that he sent all the muggle-borns to Azkaban?
As young as the first years. It didn't matter to him.
[As a future prisoner of Azkaban (the future Prisoner of Azkaban)-- well, Sirius has done a bloody good job of ignoring that aspect of the future, mostly because James and his fate have been all-consuming. But there's times when it comes up--deliberately, accidentally--and then he doesn't know what the hell to think.
There's no moment of pause here. It's not always easy, not being selfish, but something like this rates far beyond him.]
first years
[and Merlin, what else do you say to that? First years.]
he did it or he tolerated it not that it matters and they know this?
[Harry and Hermione, he means. They can't know it.]
well he was the one in charge, wasn't he if he didn't do it then he's the only one who would have had the power to stop it and he didn't, so it's just as bad
they ought to know it if they're not thick, and you know they're not they saw Dean Thomas while they were out there, he's a muggle-born in our year some of the 7th years were able to make a run for it because the trace expired, but anybody younger than that...
anyhow even if they didn't get that they know all about how he turned Hogwarts into a Death Eater training camp, how he hired two of them (the Carrows) to torture the students who didn't fall in line, and how he took kids hostage when their parents were causing too much trouble outside.
[The fact that they're not explaining this to the strangers here from other worlds isn't exactly sitting well with him, but the fact that they're not telling even other Order members is making it very, very hard for Neville not to pull his hair out. They cannot possibly buy the stupid martyr story that he's telling so fully that they won't even give their friends and family a fair warning about what sort of things Snape has proven he can live with himself doing, can they? It's ludicrous.]
[It takes Neville a solid ten seconds, it seems like, to process that. At some point during her reply his mouth had even dropped open an infinitesimal amount.
He'd gotten so used to the extraordinary courage of his fellow students, over the last year - and especially over the last few weeks, when he'd been driven into hiding and only had contact with other members of Dumbledore's Army - that it floors him for a moment to hear anybody refuse to hear him out, on account of the information being unpleasant.
Which is, in fact, what he thinks is happening. After all, he's never had a mother, himself (at least, not one that can still feel and recognize dread or worry for the future), and the only time his grandmother had ever expressed pride in him was when he was throwing himself headlong into mortal danger, so the whole thing is treading a bit outside his scope of empathy. He blinks at her, mouth closing again.]
... Right. [He doesn't look like he has any idea where to go from there.] Well, I'm sorry for. For bothering you. Then.
[this is a hell of a lot to think about. Sirius is, obviously, always one for hating Snape, for various reasons--but this information gives new dimension to his hatred.
Hogwarts is Hogwarts. it should never have had a battle fought at it, he'd thought that from the start. but a battle after it was turned into some grim parody of itself, where students were tortured, where kids were trained at the ways of the bloody Death Eaters--that makes it all so different. it makes Snape as big a bastard as Sirius always thought that he was--no, knew he was.]
i'll ask them about it i'll see what exactly they know and i'll tell the others about it as well
[because James ought to know, and Remus--and Lily.]
have you told a lot of people here about this people that arent from the wizarding world i mean
[and then, after a small delay--]
he won't get away with it dont worry one way or another he's going to answer for all of this shit
[They're going to be awfully cross with him about this, he figures. When he had started to say something on the Network, Harry had messaged him and essentially told him to keep quiet about it, if not in so many words. It was complicated, he said.
And then there was the way they defended him on Barty's announcement. Like he was some brave and noble soul, misunderstood and unfairly misrepresented, even though none of the stuff said there had even been a lie. Like he'd been the hero of their war, and not the warden of one of its worst prisons.]
just the two teachers from his school who contacted me to ask about it I wasn't going to lie about what happened
[Because while he believed Harry at first glance (it was Harry saying it, why wouldn't he), time and circumstances in Asgard had caused him to backslide wildly into being wholly convinced that Snape had fooled everybody, somehow, again. That even if he had truly been working undercover, he'd gone so far beyond anything forgivable in maintaining his secret at the cost of everyone and everything around him that there was absolutely no difference between that and what he'd have done if he'd been on Voldemort's side the whole time.
Neville doesn't think there is any way the ends have justified his means.]
yeah dont lie people ought to know him for what he is i'm not saying lets publish a book about it but he is a bastard
dont talk about him to barty crouch though dont talk to barty crouch at all if you can help it hes not as big a bastard as snape but he's no sweet little puffskein either
[because no one's as big a bastard as Snape, not in Sirius' books. maybe Voldemort, but his problem with Snape is so much more personal and pertinent. he has to sort all of this out, and see what James and Remus have to say--like always--
Merlin.]
yeah youre welcome mate the least i could do especially after the time youve had of it let me know if crouch gives you any trouble, same with snape we'll sort them both
You're not bothering me. I wouldn't have come in here if you were a bother. I was worried, you sounded- [ that's not the point. her voice is too quiet, like she's trying too hard to keep her temper under control. not that she really has one, but sometimes it flares, times like this. when she's not expecting it. ] If telling me about the future will help you feel better, then- you should, I suppose. I only came in here to make sure you were alright. I mean that.
[ her face is hot though, embarrassed and ashamed and a number of other emotions she's not used to feeling, wasn't expecting to right now, talking to Neville. which is why, even though she should stop, she kind of- sets off. still quiet, but her brow's furrowed up, jaw tight ]
Though, since we're on the subject, please let me know the next time someone tells you that you, and the person you love most, will be dead within two years time, because two different people that you've considered a best friends at some point in your life betrayed you. And that even though things seemed impossible for you and your friends, right before your death of course, everything you know falls apart after you're gone. Everything. When someone tells you that you're not around to see your son grow up, or to help him through the hell that came as the result of a blood prophecy, or to even fight in a war that you've been too close to from the start of it, please, let me know. Because then I would understand why you're looking at me like that right now.
[ oh godric she needs to shut up. she knows she's gone too far, it's obvious by how bright her eyes are, how she kind of isn't letting herself blink because she knows she'd get all- teary. but- ]
But since you must already know what that's like, going by your judgment here, you should go ahead and let me know. No harm done, right, since I won't be around to experience any of it anyway. Shame on me, being so selfish, when I took the easy way out of everything, taking a Killing Curse instead of living long enough to know what everyone is talking about of the future.
[Neville looks quite like he'd just been slapped across the face.
He hadn't thought of that. Any of it, really. Not with Lily, and not with any of his other housemates (or Professor Dumbledore.) How hard it must be to come from the past and be unable to do anything to prepare for the future. It would probably drive him up a wall if a stranger walked in and told him that something terrible was going to happen a decade or two from now and ruin the lives of his friends and family, and that he couldn't do anything about it. Since coming here he's been so laser-focused on Snape, on how nobody is doing anything about Snape, that he'd let everything else get kicked right to the wayside.
Which is just-- well, he shouldn't be this much of a tosser. He isn't this much of a tosser, and he's letting a couple of Death Eaters turn him into one. That alone manages to make him feel even worse now than he had when Lily first walked in - and that's saying something.
In direct contrast to her relative restraint, Neville is blinking rapidly because there are definitely tears in his eyes. He's always been what one might charitably refer to as a bit emotional.]
I didn't say- I didn't mean-- [Well, he hadn't said but he had meant, which is the problem here. The war was all he lived and breathed and thought about for the past year, it was the only thing he'd ever done worth doing, and now he can't even talk about it. It's such a profoundly isolating feeling that he's lashing out at people who don't deserve it - he really doesn't want to be the kind of guy who does that. Miserably, ashamed, he ducks his head and fights back the urge to palm at his eyes.] I'm sorry.
[Neville's brows furrow at the question, thoughtful. It's decidedly lesson-like, sure, but there's something about Dumbledore's manner that makes Neville more at ease here than he'd ever been in any class but Professor Sprout's.
Though, the lack of classmates might be helping there. He's friends with everyone in his house in his year, sure, but he also knows how he comes off and thinks they weren't wrong to think he was a bit of an idiot and quite a useless wizard for the majority of his school career.]
That it's rubbish, isn't it? That they've not go a real reason to take away our magic and replace it with theirs if the toads have got some kind of traveler's enchantment on them. [His lips twist slightly, and he leans over to grab at a second, slippery toad with a bit of highly practiced ease that makes it clear he's got a long and storied history of snatching Trevor off the floor as he tries to make a bid for freedom.] But I bet we'd be able to scarper if we still had it, and they'd have to fight their own war.
[He looks up, suddenly, toad in one hand bucket in the other. Like he thinks saying that will have made him sound like a coward.]
I wouldn't, I mean. I've not got a problem with helping them, really, they do seem to need it. I just think I'd be more use if they had regular- I mean, magical plants here. [Uh maybe and your own magic, Neville.]
private; video
Date: 2014-03-29 11:48 pm (UTC)Makes me wish I could still do a shield charm here.
private; video
Date: 2014-03-30 03:34 am (UTC)-but I can teach you how to make your own shield on the spot.
private; video
Date: 2014-03-30 07:36 am (UTC)private; video
Date: 2014-03-30 07:41 am (UTC)It kind of comes in waves. Like every day, a few more things click.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-31 11:37 am (UTC)think hes meant to have changed sides so none of us are meant to worry
you really dont believe that?
[far be it from Sirius to defend Snape, but...]
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Date: 2014-03-31 12:45 pm (UTC)I think the things he did were unforgivable and it doesn't really matter what side he was on in the end
and I think nobody who actually cared about anybody but himself could have done what he did no matter what justification he's using
did they even bother to tell you what it was like, what he turned Hogwarts into?
no subject
Date: 2014-03-31 06:37 pm (UTC)Hogwarts has a battle. That's always been a little inconceivable to him, but with Dumbledore, why not? And with Snape as the bloody headmaster...]
theyve only said a little
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Date: 2014-03-31 11:20 pm (UTC)I can't know. Not yet. [ she's looking somewhere past him for a second, shaking her head again before her eyes find his again, brow furrowed ] I know it makes me weak, like I'm trying to bury my head in the sand, but I can't- know those things. Not when I know I wasn't there to help, or fix things, or stop them. [ it's all guilt and responsibility and- yeah. but. ] I'm sorry.
I've been trying very hard to focus on what we all have here, you know? Because it's technically all I really do have. James and me. [ and she pauses there, hoping he sees that that's really what scares her. not the actual information, but the fact that she won't be there for any of it, she's still dealing with that. ] Not to say I'll just excuse what people did at home, who they are or what they've done, but I'm not- ready yet. To know.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 05:05 am (UTC)Did you know that he sent all the muggle-borns to Azkaban?
As young as the first years. It didn't matter to him.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 11:48 am (UTC)There's no moment of pause here. It's not always easy, not being selfish, but something like this rates far beyond him.]
first years
[and Merlin, what else do you say to that? First years.]
he did it or he tolerated it
not that it matters
and they know this?
[Harry and Hermione, he means. They can't know it.]
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 04:11 am (UTC)if he didn't do it then he's the only one who would have had the power to stop it and he didn't, so it's just as bad
they ought to know it if they're not thick, and you know they're not
they saw Dean Thomas while they were out there, he's a muggle-born in our year
some of the 7th years were able to make a run for it because the trace expired, but anybody younger than that...
anyhow even if they didn't get that they know all about how he turned Hogwarts into a Death Eater training camp, how he hired two of them (the Carrows) to torture the students who didn't fall in line, and how he took kids hostage when their parents were causing too much trouble outside.
[The fact that they're not explaining this to the strangers here from other worlds isn't exactly sitting well with him, but the fact that they're not telling even other Order members is making it very, very hard for Neville not to pull his hair out. They cannot possibly buy the stupid martyr story that he's telling so fully that they won't even give their friends and family a fair warning about what sort of things Snape has proven he can live with himself doing, can they? It's ludicrous.]
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 10:21 am (UTC)He'd gotten so used to the extraordinary courage of his fellow students, over the last year - and especially over the last few weeks, when he'd been driven into hiding and only had contact with other members of Dumbledore's Army - that it floors him for a moment to hear anybody refuse to hear him out, on account of the information being unpleasant.
Which is, in fact, what he thinks is happening. After all, he's never had a mother, himself (at least, not one that can still feel and recognize dread or worry for the future), and the only time his grandmother had ever expressed pride in him was when he was throwing himself headlong into mortal danger, so the whole thing is treading a bit outside his scope of empathy. He blinks at her, mouth closing again.]
... Right. [He doesn't look like he has any idea where to go from there.] Well, I'm sorry for. For bothering you. Then.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 03:24 pm (UTC)Hogwarts is Hogwarts. it should never have had a battle fought at it, he'd thought that from the start. but a battle after it was turned into some grim parody of itself, where students were tortured, where kids were trained at the ways of the bloody Death Eaters--that makes it all so different. it makes Snape as big a bastard as Sirius always thought that he was--no, knew he was.]
i'll ask them about it
i'll see what exactly they know and i'll tell the others about it as well
[because James ought to know, and Remus--and Lily.]
have you told a lot of people here about this
people that arent from the wizarding world i mean
[and then, after a small delay--]
he won't get away with it dont worry
one way or another he's going to answer for all of this shit
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 05:28 pm (UTC)[They're going to be awfully cross with him about this, he figures. When he had started to say something on the Network, Harry had messaged him and essentially told him to keep quiet about it, if not in so many words. It was complicated, he said.
And then there was the way they defended him on Barty's announcement. Like he was some brave and noble soul, misunderstood and unfairly misrepresented, even though none of the stuff said there had even been a lie. Like he'd been the hero of their war, and not the warden of one of its worst prisons.]
just the two teachers from his school who contacted me to ask about it
I wasn't going to lie about what happened
[Because while he believed Harry at first glance (it was Harry saying it, why wouldn't he), time and circumstances in Asgard had caused him to backslide wildly into being wholly convinced that Snape had fooled everybody, somehow, again. That even if he had truly been working undercover, he'd gone so far beyond anything forgivable in maintaining his secret at the cost of everyone and everything around him that there was absolutely no difference between that and what he'd have done if he'd been on Voldemort's side the whole time.
Neville doesn't think there is any way the ends have justified his means.]
thanks Sirius
I mean it
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 09:27 pm (UTC)people ought to know him for what he is
i'm not saying lets publish a book about it but he is a bastard
dont talk about him to barty crouch though
dont talk to barty crouch at all if you can help it
hes not as big a bastard as snape but he's no sweet little puffskein either
[because no one's as big a bastard as Snape, not in Sirius' books. maybe Voldemort, but his problem with Snape is so much more personal and pertinent. he has to sort all of this out, and see what James and Remus have to say--like always--
Merlin.]
yeah youre welcome mate
the least i could do especially after the time youve had of it
let me know if crouch gives you any trouble, same with snape
we'll sort them both
no subject
Date: 2014-04-03 12:26 am (UTC)You're not bothering me. I wouldn't have come in here if you were a bother. I was worried, you sounded- [ that's not the point. her voice is too quiet, like she's trying too hard to keep her temper under control. not that she really has one, but sometimes it flares, times like this. when she's not expecting it. ] If telling me about the future will help you feel better, then- you should, I suppose. I only came in here to make sure you were alright. I mean that.
[ her face is hot though, embarrassed and ashamed and a number of other emotions she's not used to feeling, wasn't expecting to right now, talking to Neville. which is why, even though she should stop, she kind of- sets off. still quiet, but her brow's furrowed up, jaw tight ]
Though, since we're on the subject, please let me know the next time someone tells you that you, and the person you love most, will be dead within two years time, because two different people that you've considered a best friends at some point in your life betrayed you. And that even though things seemed impossible for you and your friends, right before your death of course, everything you know falls apart after you're gone. Everything. When someone tells you that you're not around to see your son grow up, or to help him through the hell that came as the result of a blood prophecy, or to even fight in a war that you've been too close to from the start of it, please, let me know. Because then I would understand why you're looking at me like that right now.
[ oh godric she needs to shut up. she knows she's gone too far, it's obvious by how bright her eyes are, how she kind of isn't letting herself blink because she knows she'd get all- teary. but- ]
But since you must already know what that's like, going by your judgment here, you should go ahead and let me know. No harm done, right, since I won't be around to experience any of it anyway. Shame on me, being so selfish, when I took the easy way out of everything, taking a Killing Curse instead of living long enough to know what everyone is talking about of the future.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-03 07:29 am (UTC)He hadn't thought of that. Any of it, really. Not with Lily, and not with any of his other housemates (or Professor Dumbledore.) How hard it must be to come from the past and be unable to do anything to prepare for the future. It would probably drive him up a wall if a stranger walked in and told him that something terrible was going to happen a decade or two from now and ruin the lives of his friends and family, and that he couldn't do anything about it. Since coming here he's been so laser-focused on Snape, on how nobody is doing anything about Snape, that he'd let everything else get kicked right to the wayside.
Which is just-- well, he shouldn't be this much of a tosser. He isn't this much of a tosser, and he's letting a couple of Death Eaters turn him into one. That alone manages to make him feel even worse now than he had when Lily first walked in - and that's saying something.
In direct contrast to her relative restraint, Neville is blinking rapidly because there are definitely tears in his eyes. He's always been what one might charitably refer to as a bit emotional.]
I didn't say- I didn't mean-- [Well, he hadn't said but he had meant, which is the problem here. The war was all he lived and breathed and thought about for the past year, it was the only thing he'd ever done worth doing, and now he can't even talk about it. It's such a profoundly isolating feeling that he's lashing out at people who don't deserve it - he really doesn't want to be the kind of guy who does that. Miserably, ashamed, he ducks his head and fights back the urge to palm at his eyes.] I'm sorry.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-03 09:05 am (UTC)trust me, I haven't got any delusions about Barty Crouch
and I will
let you know if it happens, I mean
action
Date: 2014-04-07 09:29 am (UTC)Though, the lack of classmates might be helping there. He's friends with everyone in his house in his year, sure, but he also knows how he comes off and thinks they weren't wrong to think he was a bit of an idiot and quite a useless wizard for the majority of his school career.]
That it's rubbish, isn't it? That they've not go a real reason to take away our magic and replace it with theirs if the toads have got some kind of traveler's enchantment on them. [His lips twist slightly, and he leans over to grab at a second, slippery toad with a bit of highly practiced ease that makes it clear he's got a long and storied history of snatching Trevor off the floor as he tries to make a bid for freedom.] But I bet we'd be able to scarper if we still had it, and they'd have to fight their own war.
[He looks up, suddenly, toad in one hand bucket in the other. Like he thinks saying that will have made him sound like a coward.]
I wouldn't, I mean. I've not got a problem with helping them, really, they do seem to need it. I just think I'd be more use if they had regular- I mean, magical plants here. [Uh maybe and your own magic, Neville.]
text
Date: 2014-04-07 05:16 pm (UTC)[hello stranger don't mind me I'm just a friendly neighbourhood network-dweller]
text
Date: 2014-04-07 06:01 pm (UTC)[no good is going to come of this is it]
text ffffforever and always
Date: 2014-04-07 06:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-07 06:15 pm (UTC)You think Will Graham is dangerous?
no subject
Date: 2014-04-07 06:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-07 09:11 pm (UTC)